Response to Charles David Covert

Charles David Covert at 12:22am June 9
Trust me, my life will be for something. It will be for a mansion up in Heaven so marvelous and wonderful that no words can come close to describing.

Charles David Covert at 12:11am June 9
where does it promote slavery? where does it justify lynching? where does it promote genocides?

Charles David Covert at 11:58pm June 8
You guys have twisted everything that has been said. First of all Erik, if you don't have to have the Bible as you said earlier, then you won't go to Heaven. The Bible is the Christian's road map to Heaven, and without it you won't make it. Secondly, quoting the Bible, whether you think so or not, makes my point even stronger. God's Word NEVER ... Read More changes, people change. Thirdly, God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. There is such a things as a Godly hatred. We as Christians don't hate anybody, we hate the sin/s they are committing and homosexuality is one of them.(Hannah-playing around doesn't make you gay.) Homosexuality is a choice. You are not born that way. There is no way anybody would be born that way, because God says it is an abomination (sin), therefore He would not create anybody or let be born a homosexual. God DOES NOT change His mind. He never has and never will.

Charles David Covert at 11:04pm June 8
Here's to Tyler and Brandon. You guys are awesome. Hang in there, keep your heads, keep the faith, and continue to follow in God's light that He sheds upon you.

To the others, OPEN YOUR EYES! I mean come on, Erik, the Bible, I John 2:15-16 says, "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And Tim, homosexuality is sin, whether you're a homosexual for a second or a lifetime.

Charles, Charles, Charles. Where to begin? I really don’t think you want a dialog with me but you did call me out. Let’s just look at a few of your comments and decide if they have merit.
Let’s talk about this mansion idea first. Mansion is a poorly translated word into today’s English language. When Christ spoke of in my father’s house are many mansions he would have been in a culture used to a central meeting place with hollowed out rooms in the rocks surrounding it. Better translated would be
International Standard Version (©2008)
There are many rooms in my Father's house. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you?
or
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
In other words there is a place for you in heaven. Sorry, no promise of a big house just for you.
The idea is there is room for you. More like a bunch of apartment buildings and each complex unit having one room.
Oh and I would be careful about bragging about you place in heaven, the first last and last first stuff might leave you disappointed.


Next? Genocide
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1

Overview of some biblical genocides:

Biblical scholar Raymond Schwager:
"... has found 600 passages of explicit violence in the Hebrew Bible [a.k.a. Old Testament], 1000 verses where God's own violent actions of punishment are described, 100 passages where God expressly commands others to kill people, and several stories where God irrationally kills or tries to kill for no apparent reason. Violence ... is easily the most often mentioned activity in the Hebrew Bible." 6
Of the many passages in the Hebrew Scriptures that describe major loss of life, most were conventional wars. Four of these events would probably qualify as genocides under most current definitions of the term. They were:
The worldwide flood at the time of Noah as described in Genesis, chapters 6 to 8. From the description, it almost completely wiped out the human race, with the exception of Noah, his wife and sons and their wives.
The Passover incident described in Exodus chapters 11 and 12, in which all of the firstborn of all Egypt were slaughtered. This included newborns, children, youths, adults, the elderly -- both human and animal.
The conquest of Canaan, in which God ordered the Hebrews to completely exterminate the Canaanite people -- again from the elderly to newborns and fetuses. This is described throughout the book of Joshua as occurring in Jericho and other Caananite cities.
The near extermination of the entire tribe of Benjamin by the remaining 11 tribes, triggered by the serial rape and murder of a priest's concubine by a few Benjamites. See Judges, chapter 20.
The first three of the above genocides have at least three factors in common:
The Bible explains that God was primarily responsible.
Many liberal Christians, liberal Jews, historians and biblical archaeologists believe that all three are religious myths -- stories of great spiritual significance about events that never actually happened.
Jewish and Christian conservatives generally believe in that the authors of the Bible were inspired by God and thus their writings are inerrant. They believe that the genocides happened exactly as described in the Bible.
In addition, the book of Revelation, as interpreted by Christian Dispensationalists, predicts that a massive genocide will occur at some time in our future, in association with the war of Armageddon and the end of the world as we know it (TEOTWAWKI). If it were to happen in the near future, on the order of two billion people will die.
In modern times, genocide is generally regarded as the most serious, reprehensible, horrifying and disgusting crime of which humans are capable. Those responsible are considered to be sub-human pariahs. At first glance, there seems to be a conflict between concept of God as a loving, caring, beneficent deity, and his responsibility in causing or ordering these genocides.

As far as slavery and lynching are concerned to pretend the bible wasn’t used to justify these practices is just naïve. The church was all about segregation, against interracial marriage and that has been in my lifetime. The KKK is a “Christian” organization.

Now let’s look at some of your more absurd comments:

“…if you don't have to have the Bible as you said earlier, then you won't go to Heaven. The Bible is the Christian's road map to Heaven, and without it you won't make it.”

This statement has not a smattering of truth to it. If it were true none of the early church would have made it and I assume some of the disciples and a couple others will be in heaven. The bible itself doesn’t even teach such a thing. Getting to heaven is about what Christ has done. Your judgment of Eric is un-useful, unloving, un-Christ like and un-called for.

You said, ”… God's Word NEVER ... changes, people change.”

While the words on the page have not changed our understanding of it has changed dramatically over the years. As we have learned that our scriptural views have not been true to science our views have changed, (earth goes around the sun, the world is not flat and women are good for something besides breeding, selling and house cleaning.


God loves the sinner, but hates the sin is an excuse to lord over others. The only sin you need to hate is your own. Christ said to love the lord your God with all your heart soul and might and your neighbor as yourself.

Of course that leaves us with you most absurd claim, most uninformed thought and the crux of why Christians continue to be superstitious fools rather than mature thinking, understanding, loving people. You said that,” homosexuality is a choice. You are not born that way.”

WHAT CAUSES ONE'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION?
http://www.soulforce.org/article/1365
The most honest answer is that mainstream scientists do not yet know for sure what causes sexual orientation, be it heterosexual or homosexual. The American Psychological Association states "most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive, and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people."5
Unfortunately, the question itself can be problematic. While it is certainly a legitimate scientific query, it is associated with paradigms that view homosexuality as a disorder, illness, or abnormality with causes that need explanation (When was the last time you heard anyone ask "What causes heterosexuality?"). Implicit is the assumption that since the majority of people are heterosexual, heterosexuality is normal (and in no need of explanation), while any deviation from the norm is not. It is not unlike asserting that since most people are right-handed, left-handed people must be abnormal. In fact, until the end of the 1950s, left-handedness was considered immoral and wicked in Catholic schools and left-handed students were forced to write with their right hands. But writing with your right hand when you are really left-handed, like trying to love someone of the opposite gender if you are really gay, is forced and artificial behavior.
The scientific community believes sexual orientation to be a complex mix of both biological and environmental factors, yet many religious leaders and organizations continue to perpetuate the myth that homosexuality is caused by family problems or poor parenting -- even though these theories were discredited by the mainstream social-science community several decades ago.